Manny Pacquiao Vs. the Greats Part 2: The Junior Lightweights
Published: Dec 14 2009 by: Scott Levinson
How Would Manny Pacquiao fare Against the Best Super Featherweight Fighters in Boxing History?
At junior lightweight Manny continued his ascent toward mega superstardom. One could also say it was a period of leveling off. His run at 130 was the calm before the storm, and the first division where he encountered problems since his flyweight title run years before. This version of Pacquiao was a great fighter, but still a vulnerable and one-handed one, as evidenced by his loss to Erik Morales and razor-thin decision over Juan Manuel Marquez, both at this very weight.
Manny Pacquiao vs. All-Time Junior Lightweights Fight #1:
Flash Elorde
World Junior Lightweight Champion (1960-67)
88-27-2 (33 KOs)
Analysis: Elorde may not have had the career Manny has had, but the legendary Filipino was considered the best ever of his nation until Manny’s recent ascension. Some old timers may even think he still was the best. Sometimes we can be overly sentimental toward fighters from our youth. He didn’t have much success in other divisions, and did lose a bunch of fights, but from 1960 to 1967 this junior lightweight was the top dog in his division and arguably the best ever at this weight.
Manny is stepping right into Elorde’s wheelhouse at 130. Elorde was a complete boxer-puncher, with speed, skills, and an incredible will to win. Manny at 130, while extremely formidable, was still finding his way. By the time Elorde made it to the top, he had seen it all. Fighting every style of boxer around the world and splitting two bouts with legendary Sandy Saddler will make you grow up fast.
What a fight this would have been. In a super-fast paced, skillful encounter, both men would swap punches on nearly even terms. Elorde would equal Manny in terms of slashing ferocity and viciousness, and begin to nudge his nose ahead in the later rounds. The seasoning and skills of Elorde would allow him to hold an edge going into the later rounds. A right hook in the final round would drop Pacquiao for a brief count, and he would lose a fairly close, but clear decision. At root, you have a still-developing fighter who despite his already-great skills is facing the most-accomplished fighter ever in this division.
Result: Elorde by unanimous decision.
Manny Pacquiao vs. All-Time Junior Lightweights Fight #2:
Alexis Arguello
WBC Super Featherweight Champion (1978-80)
82-8 (65 KOs)
Analysis: Readers of Part One may recall Pacquiao winning a decision over Alexis at 126. What could change in four pounds? Well, Alexis’ level of improvement between the two weights surpassed Pacquiao’s level of improvement over the same period. Arguello’s two-year reign may not be enough to make him the best ever at 130 in a historical sense. But from a naked-eye point of view, he very well may have been the very best junior lightweight to ever grace the ring.
At 130, Arguello had picked up a few of the finer points. He positioned himself better, had an enhanced view of ring geography, and had improved his footwork slightly. The extra weight seemed to help him become a bit more solid in stature. A painfully skinny, young, murderous-punching dynamo at 126, he had matured into a more robust version of himself at 130.
Alexis, however, would always have problems with speedy, imaginative fighters like Pacquiao. For 7-8 rounds, Pacquiao would be having his way, in a continuation from their first fight at 126. But at the end of the day, it’s asking too much of this version of Pacquiao to endure 2 championship fights with the legendary Arguello with no adverse affects. Sometime around round 9, he would make a miscalculation, and run right into an Arguello left hook that would send him to the mat. After taking several trademark Arguello right crosses, Pacquiao would be sent sprawling to the canvas for the ten-count.
They split the first two bouts. Let’s see what happens in the rubber match at 135 in Part 3.
Result: Arguello by ninth-round KO.
Manny Pacquiao vs. All-Time Junior Lightweights Fight #3:
Hector Camacho
WBC Super Featherweight Champion (1983-84)
79-5 (38 KOs)
Analysis: This period represents such a brief portion of Camacho’s up and down career that it is easy to forget. Make no mistake about it, however, as Camacho was absolutely great at 130. It’s been said by some that this version of Camacho had the fastest hands ever seen in the ring. At this time in his career, he was also daring and hard-hitting, an absolute whirlwind. This was before his lifestyle and Edwin Rosario got a hold of him. He then became a defensively over-conscious and sporadic performer.
Camacho’s ungodly speed would be a difficult puzzle for Pacquiao to solve. It is not very difficult to imagine a wary Camacho zipping around the ring like a hummingbird on a triple espresso at the first bell and edging several early rounds. But somewhere in the middle-rounds, Pacquiao, who was no slouch in the speed department, would begin to break through with a series of left-hand shots that would begin to find a home on Camacho’s face.
The more Pacquiao rakes Camacho with lefts, the more defensive Camacho would become. The classic frontrunner, Camacho never reacted terribly well when getting the short end of the stick. Pacquiao’s onslaught would eventually force Camacho to stop taking chances. In almost full-blown survival mode, Camacho would run and hold, barely making it the bell.
Result: Pacquiao by unanimous decision.
Manny Pacquiao vs. All-Time Junior Lightweights Fight #4:
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
WBA Super Featherweight Champion (1998-2002)
40-0 (25 KOs)
Analysis: As these two prepare to actually face each other it’s important to note the different mindsets in handicapping this fight now, as opposed to what would have happened at 130. Pacquiao’s level of improvement from his junior lightweight days has been phenomenal. Can the same be said for Mayweather? Maybe to some degree, but 130 may represent his apex as a fighter. Not that he slipped, but it was when he was at his most breathtaking. He was in his most dominant and spectacular form and more importantly; he was tested against the best in his division. For those who now criticize Mayweather, it is because they are juxtaposing him against what he was at 130—not only a prodigious talent but also one who took on the best.
With that said, Pacquiao would still represent his most robust challenge at 130. Mayweather never fought anyone at 130 or since with Manny’s combination of skills. Even at that point, Manny had developed into a force that no junior lightweight could have an easy night’s work with. Mayweather would have his hands full and then some.
The same reasons that Mayweather backers use to justify him beating Manny at welterweight are the same things that would be at play at 130, just on a more pronounced level. I’m not so sure that right now Mayweather’s speed, mastery of angles, defense and ring IQ are enough to fend off Manny. Frankly, I have my doubts that it is. But at 130, I think it would be enough. This is the same version of Manny that lost to a post-peak Erik Morales, an almost unfathomable outcome against that caliber of opponent at this point in Manny’s career.
Pacquiao has become a study in positioning and two-handed fury. At 130, these areas had not yet been refined, as opposed to Mayweather who was already the total package. In a close bout, I see Mayweather’s advanced guile and slickness giving a younger Manny major problems. At that point in his career, Manny may have been ill-equipped to deal with not only the speed of Floyd, but his boxing skills and defense as well. Throw in the component that Floyd was also a very hard-hitting junior lightweight, and I think the evidence tips this fight into Floyd’s favor.
Manny would not be without hope in a junior lightweight clash with Mayweather, however. Knowing what he’d be up against, Manny wouldn’t come into the ring with the same mindset he had against the likes of Jorge Solis and Oscar Larios. He would be extremely focused and fired-up, and could conceivably bridge the gap in skills with pure aggression and energy. I think to some degree he would, and this bout would be an absolute classic in terms of skills and thrills.
At 130, Mayweather was already fully tapping into his deep reservoir of greatness, while Manny was still defining the parameters of his.
Result: Floyd Mayweather by majority decision.
Final Thoughts: I feel Pacquiao’s recent run has nudged him just ahead of Alexis Arguello on the All-Time Greats List. Therefore, this places him ahead of everyone on this list historically, including Mayweather. However, historical standing does not override the fact that fighters’ careers should be judged on a continuum, not as a whole. At 126 and 130, Manny was excellent and worthy of all-time placement, but hardly a shoo-in to beat the best ever at those weights.
Stay tuned to Part 3 where a peaking Manny will test his growing skills against the best lightweights of all time.
The Manny Pacquiao vs. The Greats series from ProBoxing-Fans.com is more of the nonstop buildup for Mayweather vs. Pacquiao that we’ll be providing on the site. So whether you are interested in Pacquiao vs. Mayweather predictions, or columns and fantasy fights like these, check back in often.
Image Credit: Frederick Manligas Nacino / Creative Commons 3.0 License
Why are you comparing Manny Pacquiao with all time greats? Do you also compare those all time greats fighting each other? You people cannot just admit that a poor guy from nowhere beats everybody.Such discrimination and unacceptance of the fact that Manny is the best of all time.
Manny vs Oscar – Oscar will kill Manny because of the former fighter’s size and reach advantage; End result – Oscar quit on his tool. Manny vs Hatton – Hatton will clearly give a proble to Manny because of Ricky’s size advantage, To date he is the biggest fighter that Manny will face inside the squared circle; End result – Manny toyed with Ricky and ended the fight inside two rounds in a brutal fashion. Manny vs Miguel Cotto – Of all these three fighters i mentioned, it is Miguel whom i thought had the best chance to beat Manny. Cotto is not only bigger and supposedly stronger than the Pacman but also a descent boxer. At the end of the day however, it was a close fight as it gets until Manny dominated him… Bottomline, it’s always easy to speculate and assume. I have seen a lot of write ups pairing Manny to the legends of the past, however though it will only be to the imagination of the writer as to who’ll win should the bout take place. Manny has defied so much odds that it is becoming very difficult to believe that he can’t overcome those legends as well.
As to the proposed Mayweather – Pacquiao fight, I believe that the only difficulty Manny will face in the fight is to time Mayweather because of the latter’s movement and defense but the end of the day, I am CERTAIN that Pacquiao will reign supreme with a KO around 6-7 rounds. Manny has overcome Cotto, the more will he overcome Mayweather. Of course, anyone could argue the “Mayweather is better than Cotto” imagination. But the fact is, they have not fought because Money refuses to fight Cotto, as such it is very difficult to be certain about the premise mentioned.
Manny is evolving and as such he presents himself as a puzzle, an enigma to his opponents. This Gayweather will spend much of his time in the ring trying to figure out Manny so much so he forgets that he is in a boxing match. Meantime while Gayweather is lost, Manny will rain on him devastating bombs. No shoulder roll or defense can protect Gayweather. Mark my word: Gayweather will suffer a brutal end and humiliating defeat in the hands of Manny Pacquiao. In this fight Manny will turn into a raging beast that he will show no mercy on Gayweather. My advise: assign an emergency room adjacent to the fight’s venue for Gayweather’s sake. He might not survive if he is not given medical attention immediately.
this is a great article. i am a pac nuthugger, but i appreciate such comparisons with all the greatests because i get an idea how the fighters of the past would actually move around the ring when paired with pacquiao, even if you have predicted knockdowns for my idol. don’t mind these other stupid people making equally stupid comments–they’re obviously just here to ride manny’s dick, and once he’s gone from the ring, they’ll go on and trumpet the gasses of their uneducated skulls outside boxing websites, finally.
i can’t wait for the lightweight and junior welter pieces; i’m sure that’s when pacman begins tearing through his other fantasy matchups.
Thank you for that thoughtful, well-written response. Thanks to anyone else who enjoyed it. For those who think I’m being hard on Manny: that’s simply not the case.
As of right now, he’s not the greatest fighter who ever lived. You can’t make that case. He is one of the only fighters in recent memory who could get to that point. Having him losing to some of the greatest fighters who ever lived before he even hit his peak is just my objective opinion.
I have long championed the great Asian fighters. I have criticized the IBHOF for its exclusion of Asian greats in the past. I have no ulterior agenda. That’s a cop out, to villainize someone you don’t agree with. I think Pacquiao has brought a lot of fans into the game. That’s great. I’m not sure all those people are qualified to speak too authoritatively about boxing history, however.
I appreciate all the responses, though, and yes, even the negative ones. If you love boxing, and think Pac is #1 right now, then we have that much in common.
I think this is a stupid article
RUBBISH ARTICLE!
hey man how old are u ohhhh maybe 80 coz old guys reminis the old times of their lives,its the 20th century now those u compare to manny are not even close to his achievments face the facts,oh i know the way u write your article its just show how u adore gaywed coz at the end u compare him to manny and he wins lets wait for the fight night okey then u can say all the things u want after manny deck gaywed and loose your money by betting to gaywed…..
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? always questions on mannys carrer.
Much props for your work.
I can see the hard work and time spent in the articles, it makes for great reading.
Looking forward to the next installment.
Christopher, I appreciate you saying that. Thanks.
i’m a pac fan but not really a nuthugger. this article is actually good compared to what others think as stupid. it’s the writer’s view and in some ways, some facts are correct. it’s manny’s run to fame from past to present… and of how he would’ve faced up against the best of yesteryears.
but this i have to say though, the styles of the boxers from before are way too goofy. if they used their styles from before against the boxers of today then i believe, well… a comatose is bound to happen. boxers and styles have evolved. any boxer ranked 10 today could easily be champions back in those days assuming he’s using his style today. so as great as elorde was, i don’t think he stands a chance of even finishing all twelve rounds against the manny that fought in junior lightweight. no disrespect to the great flash elorde, i like him too but i’m just trying to get my point across.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate you elaborating on your thoughts and it doesn’t fall on deaf ears. I think by the 40′s and 50′s, however, that boxing was closer to what it is now than other sports. The physical parameters had already been established and there’s really been very few new elements added. If anything, the truly great boxers of yesteryear, with their many more fights, with more boxers active in the sport, had more advanced skills than fighters today.
Certain advances have enhanced the modern boxer, and I try to take that into account. But I haven’t really paired Pac against anyone too ancient, and I realize no fighter using that Gentleman Jim Corbett style would stand a chance against Manny.
Again, thanks for your input.
no problem, scott. always nice to come across such articles and writers. misinterpreted or not, still is one great article.
i wonder what your take is on manny vs corrales. although manny is my main man, the late great diego corrales is my main, main, main man.
cheers, mate.