If Pacquiao Beats Cotto That’s 7 Titles: Is It More Impressive Than The Legends?
Published: Nov 11 2009 by: Scott Levinson
Pacquiao vs. Cotto is Days Away: Comparing Pacquiao's Title Collection to the All-Time Greats
Division-hopping is not new. Some of the best fighters in history specialized in this practice. Pacquiao’s accumulation of titles is jaw-dropping, but how does it compare to the accomplishments of other noted multi-division champions? He will be compared to four other fighters. His competition here is as tough as it gets: Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather, and Henry Armstrong.
This is in no way meant to determine who is the better fighter. It is only meant to be a gauge for which fighter’s championship belt accumulation is more impressive, more awe-inspiring. Several different criteria were used, including number of titles, number of real championships, and how much weight was covered.
Their records against Hall of Fame fighters (IBHOF) were included to give some insight into the quality of their championship runs, though it can be misleading at times. Some of those bouts happened after a fighter was at his best. With the active fighters, a bit of speculation was used in determining future Hall of Famers. Only the fairly obvious future inductees were included in the records.
Here are Manny’s Stats:
Manny Pacquiao
- Titles in Different Divisions: 6
- “Real” World Championships: 5
- Title Weight Span: 112-140 (20% growth)
- Record vs. Hall of Famers: 7-1-1 (5 )- assuming Barrera, Morales, Marquez, De La Hoya and Hatton all get in.
VS.
Sugar Ray Leonard
- Titles in Different Divisions: 5
- “Real” World Championships: 2 (3 if you consider his belt at 154 to be legitimate)
- Title Weight Span: 147-175 (16% growth)
- Record vs. Hall of Famers: 5-2-1 (3)
Comparison: Leonard built most of his reputation with title-winning efforts against Benitez, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler. That’s a quartet of wins that is difficult to equal, but this is the only area where Ray deserves an edge. He has titles at 168 and 175 based on his KO of Donnie LaLonde. In other words, it’s not very credible. He never consolidated his reign at 154. Pacquiao has more real championships, covered a wider range, and is generally more impressive in this area of greatness. The sheer quality of Leonard’s opponents, however, put him in good stead.
Oscar De La Hoya
- Titles in Different Divisions: 6
- “Real” World Championships: 3
- Title Weight Span: 130-160 (19% growth)
- Record vs. Hall of Famers: 3-6 (2 )- could improve if a few marginal cases get in.
Comparison: Oscar may have fought more legends than Manny, and he sure didn’t get a lot of help from the judges in the Trinidad or second Mosley fight. Oscar is a bizarre case. He began his championship years with an aversion towards fighting the best. But at the end of the day, you will have a difficult time finding a modern fighter with more big names on his resume than the Golden Boy. Working against Oscar, however, are the string of losses and the dubious status of his belts at 130, 135, and 160. It’s not enough to compete with Manny’s title run.
Floyd Mayweather
- Titles in Different Divisions: 5
- “Real” World Championships: 3
- Title Weight Span: 130-154 (16% growth)
- Record vs. Hall of Famers: 3-0 (1)
Comparison: Perhaps fans became spoiled after his dominance at 130 and 135. Since then, he has simply not fought the best. He didn’t do it at 140, and while he later went on to beat linear Welterweight Champion Carlos Baldomir, his welterweight run (which began in 2005) has been characterized by whom he hasn’t fought. He will soon be in his 5th year at welterweight, and still no fights with the cream of the crop. Compare that to Pacquiao, who is already fighting better competition at welterweight than Mayweather has ever fought.
Mayweather’s three wins over HOF’ers were in his last three fights, Hatton and Marquez above their best weight, and an aging De La Hoya. His best win may have been against Diego Corrales a decade ago. Mayweather seems content picking on smaller, older fighters, while Pacquiao keeps moving up while fighting the best. That’s the difference, and why Floyd cannot touch Manny’s title run in terms of clout and merit.
Henry Armstrong
- Titles in Different Divisions: 3
- “Real” World Championships: 3
- Title Weight Span: 126-147 (14%)
- Record vs. Hall of Famers: 12-7 (3)
Comparison: This is a difficult comparison based on the different championship structure of the sport 70 years ago when Armstrong was at his best. Armstrong holds claim to perhaps the most mind-boggling achievement in boxing history. At a time when there were only eight divisions with one champion, Armstrong simultaneously held 3 titles at the same time. In other words, Armstrong controlled almost 40% of the championships in the whole sport! This is a big part of why many historians rank Armstrong as the #2 greatest fighter of all time. A few more tidbits: there were more professional boxers when Armstrong fought, and he was unlucky to lose in his bid for the middleweight title.
The question isn’t so much if Manny can compete with that, but can anybody? To equal Armstrong’s dominance in today’s terms, one would have to win 35 titles. Would a fighter even be allowed to simultaneously reign today in three divisions? But Manny shouldn’t be penalized for the sport having a different framework than it did in the old days. If there were only eight divisions today, Manny could have conceivably won enough championships to compete with, or even surpass Armstrong. Can anyone say with certainty that Manny would not have won undisputed championships at flyweight, maybe bantamweight, featherweight, and lightweight, with welterweight in his sights?
The fact that Pacquiao is even being favorably compared to Armstrong speaks volumes of a 30 year old man who appears to still be in his prime with more resume-building wins sure to follow. If Pacquiao beats Cotto and consolidates his standing at welterweight, this comparison should be revisited.
Final Thoughts:
Manny Pacquiao’s rise from flyweight to welterweight is nothing short of legendary. In this sport, it seems that no one wants to give a fighter full credit until after he retires. The legends grow in reputation over time. We require too much time to process information, sometimes neglecting to appreciate what is before our eyes right now. Well, let’s learn from our mistakes, and take value in what we have here: a true boxing anomaly defying all the limitations that we put on fighters, doing it with flair and class.
Manny has already established himself as an all-time great, a fighter in rarified air, and now enjoys the luxury of being able to potentially make a run toward the top guys on the all-time list. His quest continues on Saturday.
As you prepare for the huge Firepower fight card on Saturday night, you can take a look at our Pacquiao vs. Cotto preview and prediction and then on the night of the fight check in for Pacquiao Cotto results. On the night of the fight, we will be featuring a Pacquiao vs. Cotto round by round, with live updates of the fight as it happens, so check back then!
Good job Scott! Very well thought of. There are some areas that need to be clarified if we are to compare the achievement of today’s fighters to yesteryear’s. Firstly, is it true that there are more fighters then than today? I can only think of so few names then at least here in the Philippines as compared to now. If we can just get the actual number of active fighters then and now, then we can compare the density of fighters as opposed to the number of titles available. Observers are wont to dismiss today’s titles as watered down by sheer number created by so many governing bodies. (On a positive note, more good fighters are put on the limelight, who would have been undiscovered before because there are more venues to showcase their talent. A good case is Chris John from Indonesia. Who would have thought before that there are fighters, even good fighters there?) If it can be proven that there are more fighters now, then the density will be comparable (number of fighters per available titles). We can say then that titles won today no matter what governing body they come from is no more as glorious as it was before. Secondly, the rules are different as created by the fight life of the boxers and the laws of each era. Before, fighters would fight almost every week (indicative of very few boxers available) making their resume’ so much good looking as compared to now who can only fight a few number of times per year because of governing laws. It wasn’t uncommon then for fighters of hall of fame qualities to fight each other so many times. Now, with fighters who aren’t just doing fighting for a living, they can only fight so many number of times in their lifetime. I’m hoping this area would merit your topic.
Best regards.
Percent growth should be the difference between the current weight and original weight divided by the original weight. In Pacquiao’s case it should be (140-112)/112, which places his percent growth at 25%.
If we want to make a clear and objective comparison, this is the way to do it. Great article!
That’s a really good point. I struggled with doing that as opposed to how I did it. 112 is 80% of 140, meaning it’s 20% less. I figured that seemed reasonable enough. But after reading your explanation, I’m inclined to agree with you. Thank you for your input.
Why is Floyd Mayweather in your list instead of Ali?
@ Xaxtom
I think what the author includes are the great fighters who has 3 or more titles in their career as to compare with Manny Pacquiao’s quest for his 7th (if he wins). I believe (I don’t know if I am right, coz i am young) Ali has fought only in Heavyweight division giving him a chance for only one title.
I agree too that this is a great, fair and very objective writeup.
Nice article Sir! I go along with you… This kind of phenomenon only comes once in a lifetime so, let’s enjoy Pacman and savour all that he’s been showing us!
Great article! The analysis was good and direct to the point. Finally someone credited pacman (objectively) for what he has been doing for the sport. Nice work!
If Pacquiao will beats Cotto on their welterweight showdown on Saturday and that’s will be History!! Period.
I guess the reason why The Leonard-Duran-Hagler-Hearns (Add Wilfredo Benitez)era was so popular at that time was because the hall-of-famers mentioned got to clash against one another during their prime. I hope I would be fair to assess that this generation’s crop of welterweights up to light middleweight can be compared to these guys because there are plenty of great match-ups that can be made with these active future hall-of-famers. Imagine the matches ahead – Cotto vs. Mayweather, Pacman vs. Maywheather, Moseley vs Pacquiao, Cotto vs. Marquez, etc.
Very insightful article. Although, I’m left wondering why Thomas Hearns isn’t on the list. Didn’t he win five titles in five different weight-classes two weeks before Sugar Ray Leonard did?
Scott, you have a different way of comparing fighter’s achievements. Thanks for the insight. Good job!
@David Jones: As what BisDak says, being undefeated in 140 division is something you have to consider an amazing feat. Something that the British fans are overwhelmed with through the years.